.In his interview with CPAC’s Michael Serapio, former Foreign Minister Lloyd Axworthy says “it’s a mistake (for Canada) to continue” its purchase of F-35 fighter jets from the United States amid annexation threats by President Donald Trump. Watch our interview here.
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TRANSCRIPT
well Lloyd axworthy was foreign affairs
minister in the jeanan government a time
in his life that he has addressed in his
recently released Memoir Lloyd axworthy
my life in politics you see it right
there Mi Mr aworthy thank you for
joining us again uh nice to be here
Michael thank you so let's begin with
Charlotte W because obviously the
foreign Ministers of the G7 are gathered
there right now and when they talk about
priorities we heard it from Melanie
Jolie herself it is a number of issues
but topping the list is Ukraine so
beginning with Ukraine it now seems that
the the idea of a ceasefire is becoming
more of a reality Ukraine has signed on
uh Vladimir Putin apparently is going to
be met about it tonight by a us Envoy
what is your feeling about that
ceasefire and the situation in Ukraine
because certainly people have been wary
given that Donald Trump has been more
praising of Vladimir Putin than he has
been of Vlad Vladimir Z well I mean I
think the ukrainians are paying a big
price for this they we signing off in
large part of their mineral wealth but
that to get some kind of conclusion to
the fighting for a period of time is is
worth it I mean I think there's uh what
what I think is interesting about
Canada's chairing of the G7 now
beginning at the meetings is that uh we
were really the author of The whole idea
of repurposing Frozen Russian investment
assets 300 billion dollars worth and
using it to compensate Ukraine for the
damage for the destruction and there's
there was push back Michael from some of
the European countries and bankers and
stuff but now it's it's looked upon as
really the only way in which some
rebuilding some compensation can take
place so so I I would hope that these
meetings would solidify
and consolidate that Canadian initiative
and and bring It Forward uh and secondly
I think it's clearly a platform U
for Minister Jolie for the Finance
Minister in May and the the leader
whomever that will be in June to
actually get a plat an international
platform about what's happening on
tariffs what's happening on Intervention
and to uh to mobilize other people
around the world about what's going on
in the Trump
Administration and to that Marco Rubio
the the US Secretary of State is in
charlot right now what are you looking
out for in terms of in terms of what he
might say visa Ukraine and Russia well I
I think it's pretty clear that they are
not going to countenance any sort of
statement that
uh condemns the Russian aggression but
if they can get a statement endorsing
the need for a peace settlement without
sort of uh a takeover by Russia of large
amounts of Ukrainian space then that
that could be uh that could be a
constructive uh positioning I I I think
there's a real balance here and I think
clearly uh we have to weigh on the other
side of making sure that the security of
of Ukraine uh what what what has to be
surrendered for that I'm concerned
because the problem with a ceasefire is
it may just give a pause uh for Putin
and the Russians to uh rebuild and get
ready to do it again which has always
been a Ukrainian concern but you know it
also you talk about balance but I I
think the the imbalance that's now
caused by Donald Trump because people
are worried about Russia in Europe
people are worried about whether or not
the United States will come in and and
help them has led uh Poland for example
the Baltic states now all talking about
abandoning the Ottawa convention to go
back to landmines as a way of protecting
them from Russian invasion what's your
reaction to that oh I I I'm I'm really
pretty uh really concerned about this
kind of it's almost becoming a knock on
effect uh you know the U there's there's
been a consistent effort by right-wing
and
Military groups to try to uh disband the
the otwa treaty uh because they they
just don't like the disarmed they just
don't like uh surrendering
weapons uh this has given them a kind of
an opportunity I think frankly uh we
have to blame Joe Biden for this because
he's the one that conceded to the
Ukraine that they can now use any
personnel mindes and once he open that
door then everybody else is following
through so um I've along with the and
the from Humanity inclusion we've sent a
letter off to Mr Jolie urging her as a
for Canada to take a real stand with
these other countries and say not only
are you going to provide for a a
snowball effect of other countries
you're also going to undermine the whole
concept of disarmament and that means
that would you have a wild west system
people rearming and uh there's no long
there's no longer any restraint no
longer any restraint do you do you think
that there's a chance of of convincing
Poland and the Baltic states not to
follow follow that path well I I I think
it depends on the the effectiveness your
diplomacy I mean uh we've got a brigade
already in lvia we show there it may
well be that we have to again uh reset
the kind of security Arrangements we
have but I certainly think that is
really that Canada should be taking the
lead in convincing people there there
are other ways of offsetting the Russian
if if they want to have some kind of
early warning system of people coming
across the border uh landmines are not
the way to do it like already Ukraine is
so corrupted with landmines it's going
to take them tens of decades to even
begin clearing up the mess so that large
parts of their country can be used again
for agriculture and for for peaceful uh
existence you want to now spread that to
Finland and Poland and Lithuania I mean
that that just opens Pandora's Box mhm
well you know we we we'll keep watching
where that goes considering that you
were of course one of the chief
architects of the the Ottawa treaty uh
but I also want to talk a little bit
about the elit in the room because while
the foreign ministers gather we have
right now uh as well the United States
engaged in a trade war with Canada with
Europe uh the United States uh Donald
Trump in particular continuing his uh
talk of a 51st state completely being
disrespectful of Canadian sovereignty
you know what do you hope comes out of a
onetoone meeting between Melanie Jolie
and Marco Rubio on that subject or do
you think she can even raise it with the
US Secretary of State oh it should be
raised without question and it should be
raised not just with Marco Rubi it
should be raised with the other members
of the G7 and saying what we have a kind
of a situation where one of the members
of the G7 is threatening the sovereignty
existence of another member do we
tolerate that or do we start putting
some some push back some cont mment on
those
issues big question by the way that you
may want to explore uh I was asked the
question you think Trump will actually
show up at the can ascus in June and
someone pointed out to me that to be
allowed to come to Canada as a committed
F felon he's going to have to have an
exemption in our law I'm not sure Donald
Trump is going to be thrilled about that
opportunity yeah which people have been
talking about but you know you also took
part in a rally uh the elbows up rally
this past Sunday and I that does go to
Canadian sovereignty and you know I I
guess if there's any good to come out of
the rhetoric that we've been hearing
from Donald Trump is the fact that we're
now seeing this Rebirth of Canadian
nationalism we're we're seeing great
Unity amongst Canadians right now what
do you hope Canadians do with this burst
of Pride this rediscovered pride and
this this determination to to stand up
against American annexation uh well you
know I I in the book I wrote I said that
uh Canada really needed a kick in the
pants just to start rethinking who we
are uh Trump is getting us a kick in the
teeth which is a little more severe but
I think it's an opportunity for us to
say look at do we really want to put all
our economic eggs in one basket uh do we
won simply want to have our military so
entangled with the American Military
that that our discretion and
Independence of movement is limited and
we we're buying airplanes where the the
digital box is going to be basic third
large parts of it will be uh sort of
monitored by the Pentagon I mean and
that's the F-35 you're talking that's
the F35 and the same thing with the
so-called new new destroyers we're going
to buy sort of off-the-shelf American
digital um centers and codes but they
will have control of it I mean what if
it ever comes down to a question say in
the IC where America is as it has in the
past challenged our sovereignty our 200
M Zone we want to push back well you
don't want to push back if some guy in
the Washington DC has control over where
your your ships and your planes can go
now there hasn't been talk about the
F-35 there has been talk about other
defense contracts F-35 of course a a
multi-billion dollar uh program right
are you surprised that hasn't been
talked about more openly about canceling
that contract and per one with the
Europeans yeah I I think that uh frankly
uh it would be a mistake to continue
from from a a point of view of uh
ensuring that our independence of action
is preserved and then we have I have no
idea whether uh Mr cardi will be able to
exercise that he'll be a prime minister
but the
other that's
problematic is that before we get to the
the big G7 meeting of leaders we're
going to have an election so who's going
to show up from Canada and are we going
to be fighting
spitballing uh when we really want to be
showing a united front there's a real
conundrum there Michael that we that has
to I've as you know I've argued that one
thing that should happen is that
parament should be recalled briefly on
the basis of actually having a unified
all party statement but I don't see any
inclination right now for that to happen
yeah in fact looks like we're headed for
an election sooner than later absolutely
and I you
know it would be an opportunity lost
because I think the G7 meeting could be
a really interesting and important place
in which Canada can
exercise its real diplomatic power to
bring other countries inside to put some
statements about a G7 member should not
be threatening another G7 member we
should be putting those things front
would Trump like it with Marco Rubio of
course not but we we shouldn't back down
and I from what I can see I think we're
we're in a good position I think
Canadians would sort support that
98% well as we say the charlot V meeting
is the G7 foreign ministers Canon ascus
will be the G7 leaders a lot to be
watching L aworthy always appreciate the
time thank you nice to be here Michael
thank you
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