Who Really Runs the Trudeau Government? | Celina Caesar-Chavannes

.With Transcript 

#JordanPeterson #JordanBPeterson #DrJordanPeterson

This is a clip from Monday's podcast release with Celina Caesar-Chavannes.

SEE ALSO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm6YyC9DxHo

.

okay so two questions then we'll we'll

0:02

go in two directions from that the first

0:04

question is like who is running the show

0:07

as far as you're concerned in the

0:08

Trudeau government or who was then and

0:11

and maybe it's Trudeau but maybe it

0:13

isn't and so I'm curious about that I

0:15

mean I've heard from other people that

0:16

I've talked to that he is um markedly

0:20

absent in during discussions of idial

0:23

significance let's say he's not

0:25

particularly interested in policy he's

0:27

not interested in the details of

0:28

governing now I don't know that to be

0:30

true and so that's part of the reason I

0:32

wanted to talk to you and then I also

0:34

want to know once you realized who

0:37

you're actual who you were actually

0:39

responsible to you know which is a very

0:41

good realization right in a democratic

0:43

system to remember that and I can

0:45

understand perfectly well why you would

0:46

have forgotten that given the Glamour

0:49

and glitter around the in the dawning

0:51

days and your relative inexperience okay

0:53

so then once you came to that

0:56

realization what changed and how did you

0:59

what changed what did you start doing

1:01

differently and what happened so let's

1:02

do the first thing first who who is

1:05

running the show or who was running the

1:06

show as far as you're concerned and what

1:08

did that what did that mean yeah so as

1:11

far as running the show I I think most

1:13

people would remember Canadians would

1:15

remember that when Harper was a prime

1:18

minister that people kept saying that

1:19

you know the the prime minister's office

1:22

was really centralized all decisions

1:24

were made there nothing changed with

1:26

Trudeau I it was the central office it

1:28

was his his

1:30

principal secretaries Jerry buds Katie

1:33

Telford that were primarily running the

1:35

show and I I don't think I'm the only

1:38

one that would say this I would think

1:39

that you know Bill morno left said the

1:42

same thing others have left and said the

1:44

same thing so don't this is not a

1:46

selenized perspective this is something

1:48

that I witness and I think it's actually

1:50

true um when it comes to uh you know

1:54

after the incident with jod Wilson rbl

1:57

When Jerry but stepped down I thought he

1:59

was only adult in the room and when he

2:02

stepped down it became very apparent

2:05

that things were going to get a lot

2:07

worse before it got a lot better and I

2:09

we could talk about that later what

2:11

happened after yeah what happened after

2:15

uh I made that recognition was I did

2:19

things completely

2:21

differently uh and and I got into I

2:24

still kept getting into a lot of trouble

2:26

for things but I at this point I I was

2:29

doing it for the right reasons without

2:31

getting in good trouble and often times

2:34

you'd be given a speech and be and said

2:37

here read the speech say what's on the

2:39

speech and don't deviate and I'd say

2:42

forget it I'm not saying what's on this

2:44

speech this speech has nothing to do

2:45

with the people of Whitby it has nothing

2:47

to do with the people that I serve tell

2:49

me the three things that you want me to

2:50

say that are really important I'll say

2:52

those but I need to make sure that I'm

2:54

representing Whit so i' I'd write my own

2:57

speeches I'd make sure I'd say them in

2:59

French and English English because I

3:00

didn't want anybody to knock me for it

3:02

and I I really made sure that I wasn't

3:04

doing the cookie cutter politician move

3:08

where you'd see one person sends out a

3:10

tweet and everybody's tweet looks

3:12

exactly the same that wasn't me I was me

3:16

I was very clear to make sure that the

3:19

people of Whit knew that I was serving

3:23

them and if I

3:25

couldn't tweak the messaging I posted

3:28

nothing

3:30

and then I think towards the endend uh

3:34

towards especially March of

3:36

2019 I just decided that I was not going

3:41

to let the actions of one person dictate

3:47

how I left

3:50

government and I was not going to let

3:53

Justin trudo continue to be presenting

3:56

himself as this

4:00

Sunny ways

4:03

great politician when I knew that he was

4:06

the emperor with no clothes on so what

4:10

did you do about that like you had some

4:12

famous blowups as you departed from the

4:15

political scene now this is reminiscent

4:17

you mentioned Bill morau and Judy way

4:19

and Rael so your your I mean part

4:23

another of the reasons that I wanted to

4:25

talk to you is because you know three

4:27

establishes a pattern and there seems to

4:29

be very very close Affinity maybe I'm

4:31

wrong about that but from the outside

4:33

close Affinity between what happened

4:35

with morno and what happened with rabbo

4:37

and what happened with you and that's

4:39

three and so maybe you could let

4:42

everybody who's watching and listening

4:44

know about these other people that

4:45

departed and why you think that happened

4:48

and then also tell us when you decided

4:52

to speak in your own voice again given

4:54

that you weren't given the opportunity

4:55

to speak as the press secretary anyways

4:58

so tell me tell us what happened with

5:01

Bill morno and Judy Wilson rabo and then

5:04

also what happened to you when you

5:06

started to reclaim your territory let's

5:08

say yes yes so it didn't start with us

5:11

though I I want to be very clear Leona

5:14

Alis Lev left way before decorated

5:17

military person who decided to leave and

5:20

cross the floor to the conservatives

5:22

really early in our mandate because she

5:23

was so disenfranchised with uh with the

5:26

prime ministers other people left uh

5:29

after left Eva nessf also left because

5:32

of the bullying that she received within

5:34

the party so there was there was a few

5:36

people so it's not just a three uh By

5:38

the time Jane Philpot decorated Medical

5:41

Professional left it we we were Way

5:44

Beyond threes at that point so yes yes

5:49

yeah so there there were there were

5:50

quite a few and I would say for

5:54

me I didn't have to have a public blow

5:56

up with the Prime Minister when I told

5:58

him that I was leading in early March of

6:01

2019 I was very clear for all of the

6:04

reasons that we discussed before feeling

6:07

tokenized not getting the support of the

6:10

Prime Minister just being very much

6:12

marginalized within a liberal which is

6:16

make it makes me

6:17

so it is so upsetting because it's it's

6:21

one thing to say you know you did some

6:23

missteps but I felt duped by a party

6:26

that I really thought understood what it

6:30

meant to be Center understood what it

6:32

was what it meant to have equity and

6:34

Justice what it what it meant to have

6:36

those things and to be disenfranchised

6:39

by them because I wanted more for the

6:41

people that I served was was uh was

6:44

disenfranchising for me yes it was defin

6:48

that is the word thank you very much

6:50

that is actually the word betrayal and

6:53

so I called the Prime Minister and I

6:56

said look I'm not running again uh I I I

7:00

didn't even have to give him reason I

7:01

said I'm not running again um it's four

7:03

years I'm not getting a pension I'm not

7:04

getting anything I just don't want to do

7:07

this

7:09

uh he first he said well that was the

7:12

same day that jod Wilson raybolt had

7:14

stepped down he couldn't have he PO he

7:16

couldn't have two women of color leave

7:18

at the same day that's what he told

7:22

you really like dude that's not my

7:24

problem that was his first response to

7:27

your yes okay so that so I'm going to

7:29

play psychologist here for a minute okay

7:32

because that's really not that's

7:34

seriously not that's seriously not good

7:37

right because if he was a wise man and

7:40

if he was a mature man he would have

7:43

understood that you put your you you

7:46

divested yourself of your business you

7:48

your life took quite a turn and that

7:50

even if you two didn't get along the

7:52

fact that you'd been in government for

7:54

only four years and you were leaving

7:55

without running for re-election without

7:57

a pension meant you were going back to

7:59

Square One in many ways and so the first

8:02

thing he should have said even if he

8:03

would have been somewhat truly

8:06

self-aware and and still putting his own

8:09

interests first he should have at least

8:12

had the bloody sense to act as if he

8:14

cared about what you were telling him

8:16

the fact that his first response was I'm

8:19

dead serious about that like even if he

8:21

was faking it you know if even even if

8:24

he was a wise Faker the first thing he

8:25

should have done was said like something

8:28

like well you know I know we've had our

8:30

differences I really appreciate your

8:32

service you put an awful lot of on the

8:34

line for this it's really unfortunate

8:36

didn't work out um is there anything I

8:38

can do for you to make your departure

8:41

more straightforward I wish we could

8:43

have worked together more sincerely

8:45

right definitely definitely and then if

8:47

he was a genuine human being so to speak

8:49

that would have actually bothered him

8:51

but the fact that he came out and said I

8:54

can't afford to have two women of color

8:55

leave me the first the same day like all

8:58

that means is that that every single

9:00

thing that you regarded was as a

9:02

betrayal was in fact a betrayal

9:05

absolutely that's absolutely inexcusable

9:09

but wait there's

9:10

more that's not all he said that was the

9:13

first thing he said so I said you know

9:17

Justin perhaps if not today or tomorrow

9:21

or at some point in the future you'll

9:24

understand the level of sacrifice that

9:26

I've made to be in this role and I

9:29

repeated it again not today or tomorrow

9:34

but someday I hope you understand the

9:37

level of

9:39

sacrifice and then he he was not happy

9:44

with that he said oh my God oh my God

9:49

Selena I can't believe that you're

9:52

talking about my privilege I was like

9:55

what

9:57

what he said you know he started talking

10:00

about the fact that he has he has you

10:02

know had had death threats too and that

10:06

and in my mind I'm going but you have an

10:08

RCMP detail when me and my kids had

10:10

death threats I didn't have anybody

10:13

right like so there's a lot of stuff

10:15

missing from this story Jordan that like

10:17

that that you're not I'm not putting out

10:20

but he went on and on and how I needed

10:23

to appreciate him because he came to the

10:25

writing during the byelection and how I

10:28

should be you know grateful to him and I

10:30

just was like oh hell no and I said a

10:36

few Choice words to him after that um

10:40

because I I lost it at that point and uh

10:45

yeah what did you say the point you say

10:49

oh I I did you tell well you can tone it

10:52

down what what were you conveying put it

10:55

that

10:57

way I was conveying

11:00

that I wanted him to know who did he

11:03

think he was speaking to like I I'm not

11:07

a child I'm not someone that he could

11:10

just

11:11

reprimand I'm not I'm a I'm a colleague

11:15

and as a person in a professional

11:18

capacity if he had went off the way he

11:21

did with me on on someone else he would

11:25

have been taken straight to HR and that

11:28

doesn't happen because he has

11:30

parliamentary privilege and so he's able

11:34

to get away with those kinds of things

11:36

and I wanted to make him darn sure that

11:39

he was not going to get away with it

11:41

with me and I knew that he called on the

11:43

prime minister's line and so I know that

11:46

whatever I'm saying that happened in

11:48

this exchange is recorded somewhere so I

11:52

told him absolutely not you are never

11:55

going to speak to me like that again at

11:57

the same time though Jordan that would

11:59

have stayed completely quiet I would

12:03

have never mentioned that I had that

12:05

phone call with the Prime Minister ever

12:07

until the issue with jod Wilson rbl came

12:11

up and go through

12:13

that yes and so Jody Wilson rold for the

12:17

for those who don't know was the first

12:20

indigenous Minister of Justice and

12:22

attorney general of Canada

12:24

decorated uh lawyer uh really

12:30

really really admirable smart person uh

12:33

when you talk about Merit absolutely has

12:36

the Merit for the job now whether or not

12:38

you like what she did within the context

12:41

of this situation is irrelevant to me

12:45

the fact that the that the prime

12:47

minister's officer office pressured her

12:50

to do something that she knew would get

12:53

her possibly disbarred and that the

12:56

ethics commissioner found the prime

12:58

minister in breach of and actually wrong

13:03

for pressuring her to allow this this

13:06

company to uh to to pressure her in

13:09

doing uh something with this company is

13:12

is quite telling so she she was actually

13:14

in the right by not taking the the

13:18

pressure or advice of the Prime Minister

13:21

but that's not the point the point is is

13:24

that after this all happened with jod

13:26

jod stepped down she was being pressured

13:29

to do something that she knew was

13:30

unethical was wrong uh by legal

13:33

standards she said she wasn't going to

13:35

do it she stepped down she was demoted

13:37

first then she stepped down as Minister

13:40

of Justice and attorney general and then

13:43

she was thrown out of the party her and

13:46

Jane Philpot Jane Philpot again

13:49

decorated a medical uh Doctor Who was

13:52

the minister of Health the president of

13:54

the treasury board and another Ministry

13:56

within our government the prime minister

13:59

after that decided that he was going to

14:01

go on national television and apologize

14:03

to Canadians for the kafuffle that was

14:07

happening within his government and he

14:10

said the words of and and I'm being I'm

14:13

going to misquote here so we could look

14:15

up the words at some point but he said I

14:18

want Canadians to know that my office

14:21

door is open and it is available for

14:25

anyone to come in and that I treat

14:27

everyone with basically kindness and

14:30

respect in Sunny

14:31

ways and I listened to that and I said

14:35

absolutely

14:37

not I had the first phone call with him

14:40

in which he raked me over the cold for

14:43

not appreciating him although I had

14:47

sacrificed just as much as he did and

14:50

did exactly what he did to get to his

14:52

position I ran I was elected he just had

14:55

a different title we both worked hard

14:58

but I needed to appreciate him for

15:00

whatever reason rake me over the calls

15:02

for that and then the second time I went

15:04

to him I went after that meeting and I

15:06

said I I was going to go to him and say

15:09

look you know what we both said things

15:11

we didn't mean on that phone call let's

15:15

try to this is the last call that you

15:17

described that's correct the last phone

15:20

call I went to him after that and you

15:22

know just like I'm sitting across from

15:23

you now said let's let's be adults here

15:27

we said some things we didn't mean let's

15:29

move it

15:31

along the the the level of

15:37

contempt and almost

15:40

hatred that he approached me

15:44

with I was I have never felt more scared

15:47

in my life of someone to be in a room

15:49

with

15:51

someone and I knew that wounded

15:56

narcissism oh no I have not rings a bell

15:59

no well beware of it

16:03

seriously so okay okay so that's a very

16:06

that's a hell of a thing to say

16:08

seriously that's that's quite a thing to

16:09

say that you were afraid okay so I want

16:12

to know why why were you afraid that's a

16:15

yes because that's look that's that's a

16:19

whole different level of anything that

16:21

you've revealed so far right the worst

16:23

thing that you've really revealed so far

16:25

is the last conversation that you had

16:27

with him where you both lost your temper

16:29

and exchanged some harsh words right and

16:31

there was all this strangeness

16:32

surrounding rabbo and and morno at that

16:35

time too but now you go there in an

16:37

attempt to what would you say I wouldn't

16:40

say smth over the waters but yeah yeah

16:42

yeah yeah that's right that's right put

16:44

some Putty on it or something right

16:47

right right well and I mean people get

16:48

upset and they say things that are

16:50

emotional and then they can have a calm

16:52

discussion about it then set things

16:54

moderately right so they can go ahead

16:56

but you said you said that there was a a

17:00

terrible tension in the room that you

17:01

associated with both contempt and that's

17:04

not good contempt is a very very

17:06

dangerous emotion so married couples

17:09

going for counseling who roll their eyes

17:11

at one another have about a 99% chance

17:14

of being divorced in the next year

17:16

contempt is not good and contempt plus

17:19

hatred that's seriously not good and

17:22

contempt hatred plus fear in the Target

17:26

that's really not good okay so now tell

17:29

me exactly what transpired in that

17:31

meeting and why you had that reaction