Reporter roundtable: Another Conservative MP crosses floor to join the L...

Bloggers note: Watch for spies and double floor crossers to 

strutt theirs stuff just like we should watch senators that cross over to the conservatives in the senate where spying is 

always an option or traitors. 

Bloggers note II Red tories and so called progressives are on their last mandate and have the  pension secured or will have it secure in 4 years ARE al LINING UP and 

the POWERS THAT BE THAT RUN BOTH PARTIES ARE CARNEYS BACKERS  110% SO CANADA HAS BEEN DUPPED AND THIS TIME IT WILL HURT BADLY .. 

Reporter roundtable: Another Conservative MP

crosses floor to join the Liberals |

 Power & Politics

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.On Thursday, Ontario MP Michael Ma announced that he would be leaving the Conservative caucus and joining the Liberals, bringing Carney's government to one seat away from a majority government. The Power & Politics reporter roundtable weighs in on the latest development

Okay, we have some breaking news just in uh to share with you and the headline is that another member of the conservative

0:07

party has crossed the floor to join the Liberal caucus. We have a statement from member of parliament Michael Ma issued

0:14

by the Liberal Party on his behalf. He is the member of parliament for Markham Unionville, one of the key greater

0:20

Toronto area seats that the Conservatives won in the last election. And the quote says, "After listening

0:25

carefully to the people of Markham Unionville in recent weeks and reflecting with my family on the

0:31

direction of our country, I have informed the speaker and the leader of the opposition that I will be joining

0:36

Prime Minister Mark Carney in the government caucus. This is a time for unity and decisive action for Canada's

0:44

future. I came to Canada at 12 years old as the youngest of seven, quickly learning the importance of hard work and

0:49

resilience. Those values, building up others, delivering results and choosing a path that creates opportunity have

0:55

guided me throughout my career in business and now as a member of parliament. In that spirit, I've concluded that Prime Minister Mark

1:02

Carney is offering the steady practical approach we need to deliver on the priorities I hear every day while

1:08

doornocking in Markham Unionville. This includes making life more affordable, growing a strong Canadian economy,

1:14

strengthening community safety, and creating real opportunities for young people and families who are working hard

1:19

to build their Canadian dream. I enter public service to help people to focus on solutions, not division. I look

1:25

forward to working with Prime Minister Carney to make sure that Markham Unionville and all of Canada can move

1:30

forward with confidence and build a stronger, safer, and more prosperous future. So this is from Michael Maw,

1:36

conservative member of parliament, now liberal member of parliament for Markham Unionville in announcing that he's

1:42

informed the speaker and the leader of the opposition, Pierre Polyv, that he will be crossing the floor to join the

1:47

Liberal caucus and join the governing caucus of Mark Cernney. This of course will be the second member of parliament

1:53

that has done this. uh Acadeianapolis MP Chris Donttermont, former deputy speaker of the house, a conservative MP from

2:00

Nova Scotia, crossed the floor on budget day, uh I believe it was. And of course, Matt Generoo, the Conservative MP for

2:07

Edmonton Riverband, who had been rumored as a possible defector to the Liberals as well, uh, announced that he would be

2:14

resigning from his seat and retiring from politics at a future date, uh, and

2:19

has not been seen in the House of Commons or voting even remotely uh, since that announcement was made. So,

2:25

there we are. Um, ironically enough, tonight is the night of the Liberal Caucus Christmas party.

2:31

The Christmas gift is that Michael Ma, the MP for Markham Unionville, has defected from the Liberals, sorry, from

2:38

the Conservatives to the Liberals, bringing the Liberals up to 171 seats in the House of Commons, moving ever closer

2:45

to a majority government. Okay. Uh, we'll have more on this. We've got a reporter round table coming. We're going

2:51

to obviously seek reaction on this. Uh, in the meantime, uh, oh, are they coming in now? Are we going to go straight to

2:56

this gang? What's happening here? Okay, you know what? This is a breaking news

3:02

moment. Uh, Robert Fefe, Joel, Deni, Bellance, and Mia Rabson. They're here. They're walking in. Bob, walk in front

3:07

of the cameraman. It's a breaking news environment. Just to catch everyone up on what's been going on. Uh, we were not

3:13

expecting to do this, but welcome to news in 2025 in the capital city of Ottawa. It's Thursday night. You three

3:19

are here. So, they saved the big announcements uh for the best journalist round table uh in Canadian television.

3:25

Michael Maw, the MP for Markhamm Unionville. I'm going to Google some uh results here on the Markham Unionville

3:30

riding. Um as this is not expected today because we had thought a lot of it had

3:36

died down. Uh a lot of it wasn't necessarily going to happen again. But here we are as parliament breaks for

3:42

Christmas. This is a seat of course that Paul Chang had held for the Liberals, Bob Sya for the Conservatives and John

3:48

McCllum uh before that. The results I'm trying to get the latest numbers from the last election. And just bear with me

3:55

as I uh do this research in real time. Um Oh, hang on now. Uh it changed.

4:01

He won with 51%. Yeah, there you go. There you go. Fiat 50.65% to 47.05%.

4:08

Um so look, we've got our reporter round table here. Ottawa bureau chief for the Globe Mail, Bob Feel Den Press, and Mia

4:15

Rabson uh with the Canadian Press. Uh Mia, because you jumped in with the math answer and saved me from treading water

4:21

there on live television. I didn't see this one coming. Uh what do we make of this and where this leaves Pierre Polyv

4:29

at this day? I mean, my only response right now is wow. Like I definitely didn't see this one coming today. You know, if the

4:34

Liberals, we know there's still been conversations going on. We know that there, you know, they want to get this to this majority uh this majority

4:41

number. Um but you know, there was not a whiff of this uh the day that that Chris Don crossed a few weeks ago, you know,

4:48

there was a lot of chatter that day. Everyone kind of knew what was about to happen. So, this kind of came out of the blue for me at least. Um, was not

4:54

expecting this tonight. Um, I believe that Mark Carney's on his way to the Liberal Christmas Party with his new MP.

5:01

He sure is. Um, yeah, I you know, JD Brookfield did a lot of mergers and

5:07

acquisitions. Mark Herney is uh he's doing he's brought that into Parliament. He said

5:13

he'd run it like a corporation. But these these aren't hostile takeovers. These are willing takeovers, it seems.

5:18

Uh, again, you know, focus on solutions. Michael Moss says not division similar to what uh Chris Nramat said. What's

5:25

your take away on this? So the first one was from Novas Kusha. This one is from Ontario which is you

5:30

know the core of the election. Win or lose you. It's in Ontario that the battle is happening. So it's

5:37

Christmas ahead of time for Mr. Carney. He's going to be walking around at that Christmas party where about 3,000 people

5:44

are expected. They paid a lot of money for that party. So they'll be I guess applauding the latest recruit from Mr.

5:51

Carney and as you mentioned it's hostile takeover or willingness. It does change

5:57

the landscape from now on for Mr. Pv and for the Liberal party now they're getting closer to majority without as

6:03

you mentioned so often without having an election maybe uh a majority. It's remarkable.

6:08

It's remarkable. I think it's also it's probably worth noting that the Liberal Christmas Party last year happened the

6:13

day that Christopher Freeland quit cabinet and they had to go to that party and it was a very different mood than it

6:18

will be at that Liberal party tonight. Yeah, that's when uh Bob, we all thought Mark Cardier might join the cabinet as the finance minister. I don't think he's

6:25

ever going to be the finance minister at this rate. Well, actually, he is. Yeah. Well, yeah, fair. Fair. Yeah, let's be honest. But you you know when I

6:32

was a young boy I used to go to bingo with my grandmother and when you were one away from a straight line or a four

6:38

corner you were on the hitch. They got 171 MPs now they're on the hitch for a majority 172. They need one more. Well,

6:46

you know, uh before the parliamentary break, uh after Crystal Utterman had uh

6:51

crossed the floor, we were all saying that there were uh we were hearing that there was a couple of MPs from Ontario

6:58

that we expected to cross the floor. I had no idea it was going to be Michael.

7:04

This was not a name, not a name that anybody had mentioned. on your show uh a few minutes ago when

7:10

you were talking to uh the House leader Stephen McKinnon, he said to you that

7:15

there were a number of Conservative MPs who have been talking to them about um

7:21

that they support a lot of the legislation that's before Parliament. Um but they've had to keep quiet on it

7:29

because the leader and the people around him uh have been obstructionist and they

7:35

um and and I I when I listened to that I thought okay um he's hitting at

7:42

something but I had no idea that we're going to have obviously a four floor crossing tonight

7:47

but this is a really serious problem that Pierre Paulv does not want to

7:53

recognize. he is behaving um

7:58

very childlike and not as serious in the House of Commons. If you're a member of

8:03

parliament, you come here uh to want to do things. Um, when you have a a leader

8:10

of the opposition criticizing the prime minister for traveling, saying he's on a vacation, when he's actually meeting

8:17

global investors to invest in in Canada, when he tries to do a stunt like he did

8:22

earlier this week to divide Canadians in the country uh over over a pipeline in

8:27

Alberta, which the Alberta government supports and presumably most conservatives support, that's got to

8:34

these are probably the kind of issues that drive somebody like Michael Maw into the liberal arms. And I suspect

8:41

that they're probably have a couple they're talking to a couple more given that pretty big hint that Mr. McKinnon

8:47

gave you. Yeah. He he said they wander across the floor to say we like what you're doing. And I said, you know, kind of glibly.

8:53

Well, unless they walk all the way across the floor and he had a certain eating grin on his face that I should

8:58

have picked up on, but I didn't. But look, I want to show you who Michael Ma is. This is the newest member of the

9:03

Liberal caucus. Uh Michael Maw, he's he's a Canadian politician. Uh his Wikipedia is going to need to be updated

9:10

because he's no longer with the Conservative Party of Canada. He is brand new. He still has that new MP

9:16

smell because he was elected on April 28th in Markham Unionville. Born in Hong Kong, immigrated to Canada at the age of

9:21

12, as he said in a statement, raised in Vancouver, British Columbia, and did run before in Don Valley East in 2019. Um

9:29

so, you know, it's interesting though, Bob, to pick up on your point that he talks about division, right? and and we

9:35

had that we showed this Lauren Gunter column from the Edmonton Journal earlier in a conversation we had about holding

9:40

data about Mr. for polyv that that we can bring back in a little bit. But he basically said that

9:47

Lauren Gunter, a conservative columnist for the Edmonton Journal, you know, wrote essentially what Cory Hogan had said that Pier probably of conservatives

9:53

favor stunts o over substance and it's hurting them. Uh when you're losing the Edmonton Journal, you got some

9:59

challenges since September. That's exactly the kind of tactics and antics that we've been

10:05

witnessing in the House of Commons. And you know, he's playing to um inside the

10:11

Ottawa bubble um with this how clever you are in sloganering and and partisan

10:17

sniping in the House of Commons. And when you contrast that with uh a technocrat who was prime minister who's

10:23

trying to actually do things, he doesn't come across as serious. And you watch him in the House of Commons and he gets

10:30

the people around him are chuckling and he's happy about his partisan stuff. But look at some of these MPs, the more

10:37

serious guys, they're not laughing. You look at Michael Michael Chong for example. I I I'm not saying he's going

10:43

to cross the floor in like that. No, I don't think but but he does not look like somebody who's enjoying this

10:50

theatrics. Well, and one of the concerns that I've had raised with me from, to be fair, liberals and sort of more

10:56

conservative-minded um watchers is the the politicking around a pipeline is

11:01

actually undermining confidence in a pipeline. like investors aren't going to go anywhere near a pipeline if they think that there's not the political

11:07

will to have it. And so there are there are growing concerns that the more politic and maybe for political purposes

11:13

it serves the conservatives, it serves Mr. Paul's agenda that this pipeline doesn't go forward that no investors

11:19

step up to the plate. But that doesn't help that the arguments that he's making about needing to grow the economy and

11:24

get more Canadian oil to market. That's what he said he's been advocating for for the last several years. A lot of people are saying what he's doing is

11:30

actually harming that process. Right. By the way, I'm just texting every conservative council like, "Can we

11:35

please get a statement and some reaction on this?" Sorry, JD. Go ahead. What I think it's worth to go back to the night of the election on uh April

11:42

28th. That night, the conservative lost the conservative leader lost his seat, but there was still cause for

11:49

celebration because they had won more seats in Ontario. They just lost one tonight. And so that's cause for concern. And

11:56

will other people like Mr. follow his steps and decide to go with the Liberal party that you know is an

12:03

open question right now and it just kicks start again questions about Mr. uh

12:09

PV's leadership and uh he's facing a critical vote as you know in January in

12:14

um um at the national convention of the conservative party in Calgary. Now that

12:20

leadership campaign is going to be more into focus because he lost and you you can you can expect that over

12:25

the uh winter break um they don't come back until January 26. But you can

12:32

imagine that the Liberals will still be will be talking to other conservative MPs. those MPs that Steve McKinnon had

12:39

talked about. He's obviously got a list, right? A list of them. Making a list, checking it twice.

12:44

And you know, when somebody crosses like that, when you've now have two people crossing who and a third one thinking about it,

12:50

third one, think about this makes it easier, not harder to cross the floor.

12:55

Yes. No, because you're getting close to majority government. You could be the person that brings them over to be form a a majority

13:02

government. Then they're in power for four years. Well, and then the the calculation starts too. Uh the internal

13:08

calculation. I had this conversation with someone from the Liberals and some people from the Conservatives last time, Mia, when when you know we we had the

13:15

Generoo moment and but also the Dantrammont defection. They only need one more. Do you want to be the plus one

13:22

or do you want to be the second, third, fourth or you want to be the plus one if you're thinking about it because you

13:27

become the kingmaker and you know on the hitch you're 075. Bingo. Well, and and

13:32

those other people that they're having these conversations with are seeing this today and they're now they now have decisions to make. Maybe they said they

13:39

would think about it over the holidays. I mean, I wasn't expecting this tonight in part because the House rose tonight. They're not sitting for six weeks. They

13:45

said they didn't have to do this tonight. Um, so I'm not entirely clear why the timing of this is happening, but

13:50

you know, this is what the Liberals were doing. But one more crosses the floor, I mean, this is already bad news for Mr.

13:56

Palv. one more crosses the floor and the Liberals get a majority, his path to to surviving that that confidence vote or

14:03

his uh sorry, leadership review vote in January becomes a heck of a lot harder. The Liberals have their Christmas party

14:08

tonight, but so do the Conservative Party. So, I'm sure that this No, it was last night.

14:14

The Justice Committee didn't sit last night. Okay, that's why. Okay, I thought it was tonight. Well, good thing

14:21

because because you know because we'd all be there camped outside. Yeah. Yeah. something. But you know, JD,

14:27

I wonder about this. We we were talking about this a little bit earlier and in a minute, just so the control room knows, I want to go through those Angus Reed

14:33

polling numbers that we had earlier. Um, Mr. Polyv, think about a year ago, you

14:39

know, uh, Christian Freeland and all of those things were were going to happen and the invincibility and the inevitability of Mr. Polyv is the main

14:46

character in Canadian politics. He was driving the narrative and it was a lot of the same tactics and the approaches

14:51

that we see right now. Uh but it each time he did this, it brought a response

14:58

from the prime minister and from his team, it gets dismissed now. Y so if you're trying to start a fight and

15:04

the other team just does this and moves on, how do you get the traction? How do you get on the track? How do you get the

15:09

narrative that you need to to put yourself at the center of of the story? Because Mark Carney is the main character in Canadian politics now. He

15:16

is driving everything, including a lot of his people nuts with the pace of it all. But you can't get control of it

15:21

because they won't even engage with it. They just dismiss things like the pipeline thing as a stunt. Yeah. Right.

15:27

And fundamentally, I think the problem for Mr. Pv is the fact that he does not

15:32

show much of his team. You know, who would be the finance minister in the future government? I think that was a

15:38

question that people ask during election campaign. I still have that question in my in my mind. Who would in among that

15:43

caucus could be potentially a finance minister? His finance critic didn't even do the interviews on budget day. It was Andrew

15:49

Shear and Melissa Lanceman, right? Not Mr. Holland. We'd be happy to speak to, but it wasn't put up.

15:54

And and since September, since he came back to the House of Commons, it remained a one-man show in the House of

16:00

Commons and in in the daily questions and even on press conference. So, he

16:06

needs to show more of his team. He needs to show that he's got, you know, somebody who could be foreign affairs

16:12

minister. He's got to do more than that. He's got to show he's a responsible opposition leader when there are are projects that

16:18

are in the country's national interest. He can't play politics with that. You got to say, "We support these policies

16:24

because they are in the country's interest." Then people start saying, "Well, you know what? You're a serious

16:30

person. You actually care about the country." And then when you can start to put and if you start putting some

16:35

policies forward and the prime minister takes them as he has a number of conservative policies you can make that

16:40

a case like I being a responsible person but what we get from him are games and

16:46

sloganering and you know cheap political shots and it's the he still obviously

16:53

he's not he doesn't see this because he's continuing to do this and he's very likely probably if we are if the hint

17:01

from Steve McKinnon is there. We may we may have other people at least another one. Well, look, Mr. McKinnon, if you're

17:07

watching, uh if you haven't gotten to the Christmas party, you're welcome back to to fill us in on any any details of

17:13

what's going on. Catch people up on on what is going on if you're just joining us. You can see the breaking news red banner at the bottom of the screen.

17:19

There has been another defection from the Conservative ranks to the Liberals. Uh Michael Maw, the member of parliament

17:25

for Markhamm Unionville, issued a statement on the day Parliament rose uh for the holiday break and just in the

17:30

hours leading up to the Liberal annual Christmas party said that after listening carefully to the people of

17:36

Markham Unionville in recent weeks, I'm reflecting with my family on the direction of the country of our country,

17:41

excuse me. I've informed the speaker and leader of the opposition that I will be joining Prime Minister Mark Carney in the government caucus. So this is now

17:47

two MPs that have defected uh Michael Maw and Chris Dantramont and one that has resigned and not been seen since in

17:54

Edmonton MP Matt Geru. This adds to a deteriorating situation reflected in new

17:59

data from Angus Reed today about the strength of Pierre Polyv's uh tenability as leader of the Conservative party. He

18:06

faces this review and here's where things are. 58% of conservative voters from the last election say Polyv should

18:12

stay as leader. That is a majority but that is down. that is down 10 points since August. And this is just

18:18

conservative voters. And the numbers get worse for Polyv when you move away from his core base to the voters that

18:24

conservatives need to win over in order to win an election. You've got 75% of

18:29

the core CPC supporters who want him to stay. That's the cohort likely to dominate the leadership review

18:36

convention in January. that drops to just 40% support with voters who would

18:41

consider voting CPC, potential swing voters, and a plummets to just 14% with

18:47

voters who may consider voting conservative, the group that really you need if you're going to win a majority

18:52

government. Mia, so what you're seeing there is like the bedrock base is there, but there's been erosion overall with

18:58

the people who voted on a hu sorry on April 28th uh for a conservative prime minister.

19:03

Yeah, I mean that is not a good a good poll for for Mr. Polyv that also happened before this latest floor

19:09

crossing. People in that party who are watching him, I mean, I wouldn't necessarily say bleeding at this point,

19:15

but you know, it's a slow trickle over to the Liberals. Those numbers are not going to go up after after a move like

19:21

tonight. And if if Mark Carney gets a majority, if another conservative or more crosses the floor, it is very hard

19:27

to see how the the party could continue to support a leader who went from being

19:32

assured to being the prime minister a year ago to giving the Liberals a majority government um sort of 12 months

19:39

later. That's pretty unheard of that to see two MPs crossly the floor after a federal election. I mean, that happened six

19:45

months after the election. Um that's unheard of. And also I think what is the

19:51

interesting is that because Mr. Carney is stealing so many policies from the conservative party that acts as a magnet

19:58

for progressive conservative to the liberal party because it's a liberal conservative sort of coalition that we

20:03

see in front of us led by Mark Carney. And I've had so many people um talking

20:09

to me about Mr. Carney and describing him as a progressive conservative prime minister not a liberal party. So that's

20:16

how he how wide he can is appealing. But but he's moved right into the

20:21

center, you know, like that like you know when the body goes into shock all the blood rushes to protect the vital organs and forget about the limbs,

20:27

right? I mean that's kind of where the Canadian electorate has gone. It's right to the middle in the face of everything that is happening and and you know Bob

20:34

like things have dramatically changed and the Liberals because this is it what they do. They changed to survive and

20:39

hold on to power. They did it and Mr. Polyv despite losing the election and losing a seat, he has not fundamentally

20:46

changed uh uh his tactics and approach. No, I mean that's the that's the big problem with him. Everybody has told him

20:52

that you've got to grow up. You got to be a serious politician. You've got to stop the partisan sniping and the

21:00

partisan games that you're playing in in in the House of Commons, which really don't

21:06

play very well with most Canadians out there. Uh, and in terms of this um,

21:11

leadership review vote, look, if he doesn't get over 80%, his goose is

21:17

cooked because we know from Joe Clark it was 78% or 79%. If you don't get that

21:24

over 80%, in fact, I think he's got to get around 83% otherwise he's going to be in in serious problems. And I mean

21:32

the liberals do not want um Pier Paul to to be deposed as leader because they

21:39

they think he's the best person best uh person they have going for them because here you have a serious guy like Mark

21:46

Carney who's had all this private sector experience central bank experience who's moved the party to the center where most

21:52

Canadians are kind of are comfortable and has taken policies including on crime from the from the conservatives

21:59

and you've got a guy who's interested in playing stunts and sound clips. That's

22:04

the kind of guy they want to run against, you know, even though the cons the conservative liberal parties are are very close in

22:10

terms of public opinion poll. And remember that the conservative party again adopted to be governed by

22:15

the reform act that allow caucus to depose the leader. So if one more MP to

22:22

conservative party MP decides to cross over the floor that may be a signal for

22:28

some to decide to change leader and start the process with the reform act to try to depose Mr. Mr.

22:34

maybe or Mia is it distilling down to the hardcore you know what I mean like um you know Mr. MA is brand new to

22:41

parliament, right? Been there since April or, you know, in in the days after April. And you know, a lot of what you

22:46

do see um they're they're Pierre Polyv people, right? They ran for him and and they're with him. So, who knows?

22:52

I mean, you see that in those numbers, right? I mean, the core group of conservative supporters, I mean, 75% in

22:58

that poll say they still support Mr. Polyv. To Bob's point, that may not be enough for him to hang on. Um, that's,

23:04

you know, one poll and it's not that's not, let's be clear, that's not a conservative member poll. That is a conservative voter poll. Yeah. Um so the

23:10

numbers are not exact as what the what the leadership review might say. Um but the more he gets down to that core

23:16

group, the harder it is for them to appeal to the voters they need. They don't need that core group. That core

23:21

group is staying with them. They need those might consider conservative voters. That's who they need to to stay

23:27

in their camp. And that's the group of people that did not vote for them. Yeah. He's not in this to be a long-term conservative leader. He wants to be the

23:32

prime minister, right? And and like JD is right. Like technically Bob the reform act could be triggered in some way but I don't know if caucus will

23:38

gather even between now and the leadership reform in probably is lucky is that there's nobody like a Brian

23:45

Maroon who when Joe Clark was was around Maroon had people that were working to

23:51

actively undermine him and he they and successfully did after he uh in fact

23:56

that they were the they helped bring that below 80% vote for uh for Mr. Clark

24:02

back in 198

24:09

but he doesn't he doesn't fortunately at this particular point for him he doesn't have anybody in the wings that that can

24:15

challenge him but you know there's just no sign from him that he is going to

24:21

change his spots. Uh 1983 nearly 70% approval is is what I

24:27

quickly found on the Joe Clark leadership review. So there you go. Like uh yeah, 66.9%

24:32

is what he got. Um I can't imagine Pure Ple will get as low as Joe Clark just based on that.

24:37

But he's still got to get more than 80. But but he needs to he right now it can't be anything that shows any kind of

24:44

gap you and further weakness. I mean, can you because like I I I I don't know if he will look at losing the election

24:51

after that big lead, losing his own seat in Carlton because, you know, the narrative he pitched was that I was too

24:57

much of a truth teller about what I was going to do to the civil service even though he had been elected there when Steven Harper was actually cutting the

25:03

civil service. Uh has gone off to Battle River Crow foot, but has now seen the erosion and the defections. And um I

25:11

don't know. I I mean it seems as if he needs to come to the conclusion if he gets there that maybe Justin Trudeau

25:18

struggled with as well that maybe you can't get it done now. Well, I mean it's it's a question he has to be asking himself. It's a question

25:24

his MPs have to be asking. Is this the guy that can actually get us into government, get us across the aisle to

25:29

where we want to be? A year ago, absolutely. He seemed like the guy that was going to get it done. I think what

25:34

the election and the very quick swing in the polls suggested is that Canadians weren't voting for the Conservatives

25:39

because of Pierre Palv's leadership. They were voting for for the Conservatives in that number because they were ready to get rid of Justin

25:45

Trudeau. And when there was a new offering in the in the window, they turned to him. To Bob's point, there isn't another person standing up

25:52

in the wing saying, "Hey, it could be me." There's names floating around. We know who some sort of some of those people are who might sort of jump in,

25:58

but it's not really obvious to to most Canadians who that might be. It may not even be that obvious to conservatives

26:04

themselves who that may be. This has been their guy for so long, it's actually going to be difficult, I think, for this party to make that switch in

26:11

their head. But again, I come back to if if one more conservative crosses the floor and Mark Carney gets a majority, I

26:17

don't know that they have a choice. Well, the the the the staying the appeal that Pier have had for obviously a lot

26:23

of people weren't happy in the caucus, right? We've all talked to them and now a lot of them some of them have left.

26:29

Um, but you know, JD, it was his inevitability. He was going to win. It was a matter of time, so deal with it

26:36

and it'll happen. Now it looks less and less likely he can win. Nothing is certain yet, but if the majority tips

26:45

for the Liberals, he won't get a chance to even go for it for three or four

26:50

years. Yeah. And that gives time to people who think that a change in leadership is necessary to act and do whatever they

26:57

needs to do to need to do to get Mr. Pv to to leave. Well, that that means that

27:03

you know it's a bit interesting to say that um when parliament was about to

27:09

rise, I was expecting you know a possibility of a spring election because

27:15

everybody was you know sort of gearing that way and and now it's it's moving pieces all the

27:22

time. Um moving pieces all the time is a great description of it. But but you know,

27:27

you're you're you're right on. I mean, if if it it's going to be a lot easier for them for the Liberals to get another

27:34

conservative, moderate conservative to cross the floor because they if they

27:39

will be a majority government, that means they're safe for four years. They have opportunity to uh convince voters

27:46

that the forecasting was in their best interest or or not depending on when the election is and how this government

27:53

performs. Um, but so I I think we're going to be over the next couple of months watching very very carefully to

28:00

see who else may may cross the floor. And months, it could be days, could be

28:06

15 minutes left in this show. Party is not over yet. It's probably worth noting that they're crossing the floor to a party that is also pushing a

28:12

lot of the policies that they they campaigned on. This is not people who are crossing the floor to a party that campaigned on a bunch of like I mean

28:19

maybe there's a few things but a lot of the things that Mark Carney is doing are very similar to the things that the conservatives campaigned on. So it's not

28:25

that hard to see some of them saying oh you know what I can actually back that I if the progressive flank of the liberals

28:31

can live with the changes moderate conservatives can live with you

28:36

know the compromises. Do you know what I mean? because it is in the middle and and it and and the lesson I took away

28:42

from uh talking to people after the Dantteront defection and other things was that uh loyalty and discipline are

28:48

much better when they're voluntary as opposed to imposed and that was what you know people like that were struggling

28:54

with as we've seen and look we don't yet know exactly what Michael Ma uh reasons were entirely though we do have a

29:00

statement we want to just show you some of the uh quotes from uh he said in announcing his defection to the liberals

29:06

this is a time for unity and decip decisive action for Canada's future. I have concluded that Prime Minister Mark

29:12

Carney is offering the steady practical approach we need to deliver on the priorities I hear every day while

29:18

doornocking in Markham Unionville. And you know, JD, this comes on the day oh uh the day we're going to look at CC

29:24

count in a second, but this those those words uh comes on the day when the House

29:29

leader is lecturing the conservatives for obstruction and getting in the way of everything. You're seeing some of that there. Let's get stuff done, not

29:36

play the game. and his comments are very much similar to what Mr. Dam said. So it's a common theme among conservative

29:43

progressive wing of the conservative party who feel that Mr. Carney is appealing because he's you know enacting

29:50

policies that they feel their constituency want in their own writing. So it's very convincing argument in my

29:57

sense to say that uh after you cross and and it could you know bring along other

30:03

members. I don't rule out over the Christmas holiday other MPs from the

30:09

Conservative party decided to cross the floor because they will be back in their writing. Does it need to be a conservative? Is

30:15

there a block MP? You know, like I'm not advocating for you. You know, you know the nature of that far better than a

30:20

unilingual guy from St. John's. I would be, you know, I would be like this on the floor if

30:26

but you know, look what the conservatives have been doing. One of the things we were supposed to talk about is what happened in in Parliament

30:32

before it closed. And and what we've seen is are the Conservatives uh blocking a lot of legislation in

30:39

committees, particularly the budget implementation bill, which contains a lot of measures that

30:45

are going to on infrastructure projects that are going to help conservative writings. and and you've got to be

30:52

sitting there as a member of parliament, why am I blocking this from passing when it could benefit me and my and people in

30:59

my writing. One of the bills that they were somewhat blocking from passing, which did eventually pass today at third reading,

31:05

is C4. And you know what C4 did? It got rid of the carbon tax. What has this party been campaigning against for the

31:12

last several years? Now, the carbon tax sort of went away in April, but this was the legislation to do it. and so

31:17

obstructing legislation that that actually did it. I mean, that just says about the sort of the level of games.

31:23

Now, let's be clear, the Liberals have been playing their own games. This is not the it is not just a conservative uh

31:28

problem or conservative stunts. Um I've been tearing my hair out all day as they've been fighting over who's blocking who in the justice committee.

31:34

Um it's it's it's sort of ridiculous. Um but the problem is is that you have a prime minister who is standing up and

31:40

saying, "I want to get things done. I'm moving fast." And the only thing Canadians right now are seeing from conservatives is is obstructing or

31:48

criticizing. They're not actually saying this, we're going to help you get this done. We're not going to help you get this pipeline built. We're going to help

31:53

you pass. The compromise that is offered by Mr. Polyv, and I'm not saying this to pile on the Conservatives, but is we will

31:59

help you if you do what we campaigned on. And that's essentially every compromise, right? Is do it from what as

32:05

the conservatives pitch in their and that's just not how it works. I mean there's obviously been very little sign

32:10

of compromise of flexibility from the Liberals JD and you know and the prime minister made a direct promise to

32:15

Elizabeth May on the budget vote day and then did what he did with Alberta and lost Steven Gilbo. So like clearly he

32:21

knew he wasn't going to meet that that commitment right and and it's good that you mentioned the resignation of Steven Gilbo. So with

32:29

that addition of a conservative party from today, the Liberals finished the

32:34

session on a high note after having difficulty dealing with the departure of Steen Gilbo, who by the way has been

32:41

giving a lot of interviews, wrote open letters to criticize the liberal environment policy. So that was, you

32:47

know, sort of a a sort of a a burden to carry for Mr. Carney. Now with this addition, he's got room to breathe

32:55

again. Also worth noting, he lost Gilbo from cabinet. He did not lose him from the party and Mr. Nobo has said if an

33:01

election were held today I would still vote for Mark Carney. So would he run for Mark Carney though is what I wonder if that is still obvious

33:06

that's another question the question but it's still uh you know Mr. Carney has is losing some people but

33:11

not entirely whereas the conservatives right now have lost two people from their caucus entirely. Yeah. And JD,

33:17

there is a there is a longer conversation, not for tonight, about the Liberals in Quebec in the face of a

33:23

possible PQ election victory and a referendum. If Gilbo goes, if other people leave in the cabinet shuffle that

33:28

we expect in the new year, where are your champions leading up to a possible sovereignty battle? That is a question I

33:34

have. Uh, but it could very well be a majority Liberal government fighting that if this continues. Yeah. And I'll throw this to you

33:40

tonight. Um, you know, Pablo Reass is very much in difficulty in Quebec. We expect him to be forced to resign in the

33:47

coming days. He's losing support by the hour. So I expect some phone calls to be

33:53

made in one direction from Montreal to the office of France Philip Champang to

33:59

say come and save the Liberal Party of Quebec otherwise we're facing a referendum question. So I think there

34:04

will be some pressure like Jean Share in the 1990s when he was pressured by Quebecing to come and save the Liberal

34:11

Party of Quebec and and prevent a third another reform on on sovereignty because

34:17

this is what the PKI is proposing. It is leading in the poll right now and people are getting more nervous by the day

34:23

because of the Quebec Liberal Party is sort of a imploding. Can Pablo Rodriguez cross the floor to

34:28

Mark Carney? That that does it. Look, you went to rise on a 20.

34:34

That would be quite a thing. Look, uh, we want to show you the latest seat count in the House of Commons with the events of today. We were not prepared to

34:40

talk about this, but here we are. The Liberals are now up one to 171, just one seat short of a stable majority. The

34:47

Conservatives now down to 142 seats. the block at 22, the NDP at seven, and of

34:54

course the green or as other as it would be reported because they're not an official party uh in in the house are at

34:59

one. Uh so Bob, it's um you know this is it was 169 144 election night. Uh and in

35:06

that 142 of course is Matt Geru who is not a vote that they can count on and who knows what happens when he

35:13

eventually gets around to resigning in Edmonton Riverbend. What a bi-election might bring out there with Mark Carney bringing an MOU to the campaign. Well, I

35:19

think a lot of us had been expecting a spring election because everything was being held up in parliament

35:26

and they couldn't get things done. And look, the country is facing very serious crisis here with Donald Trump uh and the

35:34

effort to try to stabilize the economy and get it growing again. And if he and

35:39

now the prospect is that they are one seat short of getting a majority which

35:44

would means he can do what he needs to do or says he needs to do to diversify

35:50

the economy and also gives him a a better mandate to be able to negotiate

35:55

with Donald Trump as we uh as the you know the United States Mexico um Canada

36:02

free trade agreement comes up for renewal. So um boy this is and one point to make is the fact that

36:08

if the liberals actually get a majority with under the floor cross that means they would also naturally get majority

36:15

at committees right and that changed the dynamics lot of the problems go away don't they? Yeah exactly so that changed the

36:21

dynamics totally in parliament and we haven't seen that since 20 before 2019. Yep. Yeah it's been 2015 uh was the last

36:29

majority right and Trudeau had a resounding majority in in the 180s. I I believe it was and then since then it's

36:35

been well the pandemic kind of changed a lot of things. Uh but you know what do you bo what do you think is going

36:41

through the minds of of the conservative caucus right now like this Michael B was not on anyone's radar from what uh I can

36:47

tell and what others can tell I mean he was not a name we had ever heard right we we had a common list that we all

36:54

expected but he wasn't one of them he was definitely not one of them and we do know the names of other people that we think that they've been talking to

37:01

um look it's got they've got to be demoralized um not only the fact that they're losing members Parliament to the

37:08

Liberals. But when you look at the personal popularity of the two leaders,

37:13

I mean Mark Carney is at like 62 63% which is amazing to have and and there's

37:20

a 25% gap with Pure Pol. So, um, you know, this is a harsh game, but, uh, you

37:27

know, right now they've got a leader that is an albatross around their necks, and they've got to be thinking, is there

37:34

somebody out there? Because I mean, the object of being in part form being a part of a political

37:40

party is to form government so you can do things. If you've got a guy that lost

37:45

an election campaign by with a 20% lead and now is losing members of parliament

37:51

and the the guy who beat you is way way ahead party's got to be thinking we need

37:57

somebody that can we can put up against Mark Carney that can beat him and right

38:03

now it doesn't look like it's Peter Paulie and I think you're going to start to see some of those names coming out of the woodwork a little bit more now that

38:09

we're on the edge of this. We haven't heard them. they've been giving Mr. Paul of the benefit of the doubt. Um, but as

38:14

more of these people and and I know there's at least one or two that have been questioning and wanting to do it, um, the question is, are they actually

38:20

going to start to make that that sort of feeling known? And the closer he gets to this majority, the more likely we're

38:26

going to start hearing those names. Um, we're going to have to say goodbye in like 30 seconds, but just Markham Unionville where Michael Maw was elected

38:31

and now crossed the floor. That is like acadeianapolis and Nova Scotia, Chris Dontrammont seat ones where liberals and

38:37

conservatives are competitive. So, you know, crossing the floor doesn't mean the end of your career. You got a chance to hold on and win. We started 2025 with

38:46

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, NDP leader Jug Meat saying Joe Biden was still in the White House and Pierre

38:52

Polyv had a 25point lead. I don't know where we're going to end 2025. That's why we love our jobs.

38:57

But Mark Hardy's one seat away of a majority government and uh here we are. The reporter round table. They

39:03

scrambled, they answered, they delivered. Bob Fe, JD Bell, Samir Robson. I'm David Cochran. Thanks for watching.